85gr hammer in a very creed very last yr which was a bang flop slide down hill, zero blood and really small holes. That was 3430fps, I've a load with the prc at 3700fps. @Ucsdryder is going to have his daughter use that bullet this 12 months for deer so https://emiliongowa.blogaritma.com/26866584/the-definitive-guide-to-silver-tip-9mm